Sidearms for heavy weapon specialists.

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20 comments

  • Avatar
    Sharr

    This is a MUST.  We even see the pistol used by heavy units on LSM and CSM.  So why not give them the pistol.  They can just have the bolt pistol and not anything else above that or upgraded.  Most of their points are spent on their wargear and weapon to begin with.

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    DEIMOS

    +1

    Yup

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    Elifas

    +1

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    I. Macha

    +1

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    Avrec

    I know they've said this is a feature that is coming, and I believe they described it as animating in almost exactly the manner you described, Pancake. The last I heard, the feature had yet to be implemented, simply because the animations had yet to be finished.

    So it is just a matter of time, though I do hope they'll prioritize it, as this is a feature which affects the play-ability of one of the basic classes.

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    Brother Nemiel

    It's still in dire need...

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    Noromiz

    It is one of those features we all want but which for some reason is delayed, a lot :(

    While the Dark Reaper would only get access to the near useless Eldar Pistols, it is still better than nothing.
    So just get on with it and allow our dear Heavies to use their pistol in combat.

    Btw, the Swooping Hawk can hold his/her gun in one hand and the Ceremonial Blade in the other, so we already see one class holding their Primary Ranged weapon in one hand.

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    Brother Damnatus

    Animation probably is really the problem here. I'm thinking about the Heavy Bolter in particular, if the character takes it in the left hand, the ammo belt might be quite a problem.

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    Ser DJ Hodor

    +1 its absolutely a must.  Devastators NEED to be able to defend themselves on their own without relying so heavily on the team.  They should obviously be weaker/slower but you can't make a class that has ZERO chance of surviving a melee encounter.  Its awful.  

    99 times out of 100 there is nobody watching you because they get NO EXP OR RESOURCES for watching your ass.  When someone does finally come along they might kill the guy but that's it.  Meanwhile the devo gets all the kills and exp and you're stuck there doing nothing.  Its dumb.  

    They need to stop forcing teamplay down our throats and let it happen naturally.

  • Avatar
    SnipingCoward

    I tend to disagree with this. Melee is supposed to wreck heavy. The heavy is a support unit, if it gets flanked that unit should not stand a chance against their natural counter. The way it is implemented right now is exactly the rock-paper-scissor game I want to keep seeing here.

    However if such a specialized class has nothing to do then the player is effectively taken out of the game. While I agree that this is quite frustrating I do not think that adding a pistol is going to help the problem that this class becomes useless after the job is done. ATM, It really is the player's job to find a new purpose with the limited capabilities. I tend to go and start manning tanks or drive transports. There might be a need for change but adding a pistol is not it.

  • Avatar
    Pancake

    @SnipingCoward

    We do have the rock-paper-scissors here, but what happens when scissors meet each other? HWS bashing each other with lascannons happens. And thats beyond silly. Plus, pistol wont wreck the balance cuz HWS are still slow and vulnerable, JPAs will be unconvinced by such "drastic" change (and they are HWSs direct counter). Or they may add a weaker version of it (like smartpistol dps wise) to be superextrasafe, not like i agree with it. And dont tell me you can reliably kill someone with a pistol only with such a handicap.

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    SnipingCoward

    @Pancake

    The question is why are you engaging another HWS in the first place? Either you or him are out of position, the one out of position will get his guts cut out by a JPA in a matter of seconds anyways. Just spot him, ignore and leg it and focus on the task your class is set up to do. If he chases you ... even better then you are distracting him from his task while you are re-positioning: you win in 2 regards; without killing him yourself.

    Unlike the scoreboard makes you believe there are different ways of controlling a fight other than getting a high kill count. As HWS anything and anybody that your are not specialized in to kill is your counter. Running is a viable tactics against your counter, use it! (Just like any sensible regular infantryman that disengages tanks.)

    If you cannot reliably kill someone with the pistol then it is giving a false sense of security. This makes you take wrong decisions: i.e. you stay and fight when you should have fled. 

    We are HWS: that is a ranged, support class. It is our obligation to stay combat effective, sometimes that means simply hiding and/or running away.

  • Avatar
    Pancake

    @SnipingCoward

    first, you may engage the enemy HWS to disrupt their attacks (like shooting your own tanks,suppresing your teammates), and you cant really do so with current lascannon charge time/random kannon nade spam when in <15m range. Its not a main reason to play HWS ofcourse, but having an ability to ping his head with a few bolts and distract/scare your enemy is better than not having it.

    Second, the problem is not that HWS are weak against everything, but that they cant do anything to try and protect themselves but run. There's no other option for kannon/lascannon users but to leg it or redeploy. And dont forget HWS are much slower than other classes, so good luck outrunning your opponents. And i wrote about reliably killing things with pistol to point that they wont ruin the balance, for they cant be used to kill things (like full health JPA or whatever, not enought dmg in a magazine). Only to finish things off/soften the target up. Plus, its not like you cannot retreat with pistol drawn.

    And you really want to give your HWS sidearms, because they cannot be always protected. Because everything can happen. So they should have a chance to do so themselves. At least i do have an option to do so in every game with specialized support characters. Having more options is almost always better.

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    [5th] Alberto Mannaro

    +1

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    King

    maybe an alternative mod like a bayonet

    just something that makes the heavy less useless in close combat

  • Avatar
    TekNicTerror

    Yes, please give the heavy weapons guys a 2ndary weapon that is anti-peronal only.  We need to be able to defend ourselves better than just meleeing with the heavy weapon and kicks.

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    Azdrubael Vect

    I hope this would not be implemented. Play as team or die trying. -1

  • Avatar
    TekNicTerror

    Doesn't matter if the heavies are alone or in a group, if the combat is melee, the heavies usually die, with a 50% chance of it being from FF.

    All classes deserve a 2ndary weapon, and all classes also deserve to be able to remove 2ndary weapons from their loadouts.

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    Delgear

    Ide like to see Bayonet attachments more that make them scale thier melee attacks like any other class by spending LP to improve it, but pistols would be good too. Its just the Bayonets would require drastically less engineering ... you just slap a hitbox and skin on the front of the HW and jobs done .... make item slot and item stats to affect the damage ...

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    Corvus

    @Delgear

    Actually... it is already in Eternal Crusade. Chaos Space Marine have bolter with bayonet. Without extra damage, of course, but bayonet graphic is in game. They can "cut" it, repaint and add as attachment.

    Also... It's just ridiculous we are waiting 10 months for something so simple like sidearms.
    As shieldbro I could use pistol to actually fire when covering someone with shield.

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