Flamers

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  • Official comment
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    Oveur BHVR

    "Real" Flamers are not planned right now as they aren't feasible. And when we're doing a lot of work on optimization, adding this would be suicide, both in time spent to make it work and we have so much to balance already :)

    A real Flamer is volumetric. It fills spaces, and applies damage to those within their field straining the servers considerably just calculating hit, damage etc. and how the volume actually moves based on your moves.

    Now add one more person with a flamer. And you see the problem. This isn't even starting on the impact of the client side performance hit dealing with a volumetric flame.

    A Melta is just a laser with nice visual FX that looks flame-y. That's why they're possible.

    So the idea is, as we've said before on Twitch, we can see it work with like, a Salamander Hero. Limited number on the battlefield and even when highly optimized, the global performance hit is minimized!

    Besides, he would be really cool.

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    Spartacus

    Hello, this is a very good idea! I agree with you !!!! I hope to see the fire lauche appear one day! ;)

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    Appledrink

    Been asking for flamers since the beginning.

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    Lootmasta

    The developers have actually already stated that they want to put flame weapons in the game. The main problem they're running into is that it drops your FPS to practically nothing due to all the particle effects. It is being worked on, but they may be a long time in coming.

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    GratLurking

    The biggest thing holding Flamers back is optimization on any prototype they've had. Until they can get SOMETHING to work, it's sadly not gonna happen soon :< Admittedly confusing to me because technically Melta basecode could be seen as a potential to work off flamers but anyway.

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    Appledrink

    To be honest, I don't think they actually even tried a prototype for flamers yet and are just saying out of theory.

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    Havoc

    I mean... the grav gun projectile is just a 2D image.... why can't they do the same thing for flamers?

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    Appledrink

    @Oveur I am sorry, but I don't agree with what you said about it not being feasible because it has been done before in TF2 and Battlefield 2 Bad Company :Vietnam. Not everyone is going to be using a flamer, yes at the beginning everyone will want to try it, but there is no way that everyone would be using it afterwards and it has been around long enough.

    It also doesn't need to be volumetric like in Rising Storm we just want something.

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    Ondora

    I doubt it would be hard to make but it would go hard on the Frame rate. And it ought to have an impressive visual aspect and therefore would be demanding .

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    Ondora

    @Havoc I wouldn't say they should it make the same way. I'd rather have them improve the unimpressive visuals first

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    Oveur BHVR

    Howdy all, your opinions all matter - but in this case, it's not my opinion. It's just fact. Unless you want to debate the merits of flamers with my Technical Director and tell him our test and UE4 engine knowledge is wrong :D

    Don't take my word for it though, if y'all find a game using the same generation engine as UE4 that also has 60 players online, I'd like to see it and what you consider an acceptable flamer. It's not about 60 players with flamers, it's with flamers and their behaviour and how the players around you have to process it on server and client.

    @Appledrink - I don't think people would be happy with just something. You are also referring pretty old examples, with far few players, and those flamers, well. There is a conscious decision TF2 looks like it looks. It allows you to do a lot of things even new engines can't. It's why WoW runs on a toaster.

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    Zeckery

    So it has been considered (and probably rejected) that flamers could behave similarly to how melta-weapons behave now, but with a different particle effect? Having the flamer apply an affect onto the ground for an AOE kind of denial would be cool, but that in itself could be overpowered as well. If everyone just sat around and sprayed flames all over the place, then it wouldn't really be possible to cap/uncap points.

    Has it been considered to have flamers be a reloadable weapon instead of an overheating weapon, to separate it from melta-weapons? Flamers could just have an incredibly short 1-2 second burst before reloading, but apply more of the fire ailment than meltas against infantry, but little to no damage against vehicles and emplacements. 

    Back to applying temporary fire hazards on the ground, that seems more of an effect of a unique weapon, or a hero class. Having the ability to deny an area is incredibly strong, especially in this kind of game, so wouldn't it be better if flame-throwing weapons didn't have that effect in a fast paced game? Simply it being an anti-infantry-only melta weapon seems like it would be enough for many situations, especially against enemies who are holed up near a point.

    I might just be crazy, though.

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    Oveur BHVR

    Besides being self-proclaimed crazy, which I will not judge on, all your suggestions are valid, including using the melta mechanic with a more flamy vfx.

    But it's all various scales of effort, pros and cons. I'll give you a quick example.

    • 3 months vs 2 months work solution? 
    • How many classes get a flamer (as in, how much value is there for the playerbase compared to the cost to create it)
    • What other new thing could I use those 2-3 months on instead and would that be of more value to the playerbase?
    • Do we have higher priorities, such as the player top 10 list, which precede adding new weapons like this?

    For short, I'm making the decision of not finding a proper solution which scales, doesn't kill server or client framerate, doesn't require a work from engineering, vfx, modeling, animation and sound, right now. 

    Instead, I'm focusing our efforts on increase server performance and client framerate, balancing of the plethora we already have, expanding on those functions (ie weapon mods) instead.

    I can't have both right now, so I chose one of the two, which doesn't include a flamer in the short term.

    Hope that explains it :)

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    Appledrink

    @Oveur Why didn't you say that in the first place?

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    Oveur BHVR

    @Appledrink - I did, in the official response above. They aren't planned now while we're doing optimizations. Or do you mean choose? That's what I do every day, and it's why we have internal tracking and this feature request forum for more visibility and player suggestions, let we forget all the nice things we'd like to have ;)

     

     

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    Zeckery

    @Oveur - Okay yeah, that all sounds reasonable. Hopefully sometime in the future everyone will be able to light each other on fire right and proper.

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    Eagle 11

    RenegadeX built with the one previous Unreal engine has working flamer weapons and maps with up to 32 player gameplay.

    Exterminatus: Rival Species built on the same engine as Half-life 2 has working flamer weapons.

    If youd like can make an full list of games past and present featuring an flamer weapon. Matter of fact its not something un-doable to have an flamer weapon that does not crash the ingame fps to oblivion when fired.

    But i dont know, mayhaps this is an UE4 specific problem, seeing how wonky the vehicle physics have got it probably is related to how physics part works(or rather: doesnt).

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    Lord Ravagerx

    sorry but are u guys dumb or something good god. we are killing our self with meta and u want flamers in game. 90% of player will be kick out from game for using flamer. if u want flamers ask the creator of this game to remove allies vs allies kills then u can have your flamers

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