A Resource System for Veterans, Elites and Warlords

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  • Official comment
    Oveur BHVR

    While the specifics of the solution are all fine, it's probably not going to change where we want to go with it. 

    What we are going to change is veterans, heroes, abilities etc., which is consistent throughout the game. That includes a resources system of sort and it's forwards compatible.

    "Deployables" or "Secondary objectives" which would affect anything, including Veteran ability, is all fair game when that system is in place.

    Oh, and sorting by votes is always best! :D

    So in the meantime, I have started pinning big voted stuff to decrease multiple similar entries (many duplicates here) and that they are visible, in addition to simply have the lacking spam filter at least not on the front page.

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    So crazy it just might work!

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    I suggested something similar. Nathan said it was interesting and that he would forward the idea to those who were working on the veteran changes.

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    That sounds quite promising. The more times it gets suggested, the more likely it is to be considered seriously.

    I think a building resource system is the most logical way to go, since this sort of system really handles balance and implementation of any size or power of a new unit by its self. It's also easy to balance in the long run, since tweaking the cost of a unit to reflect its power is very easily done (rather than trying to tweak stats and mechanics constantly like veterans are suffering right now).

    Natural Selection 2 determined its rate of resource gain by how many "resource towers" you had occupied in a match. I had ruled this sort of mechanic out in EC... but it could also be a consideration for a game mode. A sort of "capture the objectives to increase your resource gain" type game mode. For now this is not necessary, however. Just a static resource gain rate would be fine. 

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    Good Idea!!!!

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    Hell fucking yeah!

    Tho i dont quite understand how the buildup works....like, would i have to wait till nearly the end of the match to spawn my biggest baddest unit?

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    Yeah that's basically how it works on Natural Selection 2. The "early game" is low-tech. As the game progresses onwards, more powerful units and upgrades start to arrive. The timing of the upgrades and their use are absolutely paramount to the strategy of the game.

    The only real difference is that in Natural Selection 2, the rate at which those resources build up is based on how many objectives you secure. This isn't really viable in EC since there are so few objectives per map, so instead i envision the resources building up at a constant rate over time for every player.

    Each player gets a trade-off decision. He can deploy something of moderate power early on (to secure objectives in the early game) or wait for an even more powerful unit later on to push the late game. Different players can use different strategies and use their resources in different ways. Obviously those that use the lesser powered units can use more of them, so their influence on the game is spread out across most of the match.

    As for timing... I'd envision the more powerful units coming out around halfway through a match. This is subjective however, like it is in NS2. The more powerful deployments can often be so influential that they quickly end a match. In EC, this could happen by powerful deployments allowing a team to capture all 3 points rapidly and thus end the match very suddenly. It's up to the enemy team to communicate when the powerful deployments come out and take them down fast before they can turn the tide of the battle.

    Also many thanks for the view and reply, Nathan! I hope my ideas can be of some value to the team.

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    ......or we could also gain a buildup boost by, say, securing secondary objectives, hmmm?

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    Secondary objectives could definitely been a nice idea. Little points dotted around the map that boost resource income. That kinda reminds me of the DoW series, except here in EC it would be in third person.

    In natural selection 2, resource nodes cost resources to set up (before they could harvest resources). It was like a micro business investment. You spend a little to get it up and running... then if you can hold it for long enough, it starts to net you a resource profit. The longer you hold it, the bigger your advantage, but if the enemy reacts quickly and destroys the resource before it gathers back it's cost, it ends up being a net loss for your team.

    I'm not sure if this would be necessary in EC or even how it could be translated. I suppose it could cost a team mate personal resources to set up. In natural selection 2, the cost was incurred by the top-down commander who oversees the battle.

    Now that I think about it, this would be a cool way to add extra value to the capture-key classes. Additional objectives that need to be fought for and held would give more reason to be tactical and their equivalents. It would also give tacticals more sense of purpose and importance. 

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    I believe the best representation of a player's veterancy is Requisition Points. You gain these by playing, and the more you play the more you get. With this in mind I believe Veteran and Elite tickets should be purchasable with RP, say 250k for a vet ticket, and 500k for an elite ticket (when these are implemented of course).

    This gives players something to spend their RP on when they have all the weapons and supply drops.

    With this system a player could purchase extra vet/elite tickets and have the option to spend them to spawn these classes more than once in a match.

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    I do not agree with spending requisition on more spawns for elites (I call vets elites since they are under the elite tab in loadouts for all factions, and that the vets are also not called vets by all factions as well) or anything else beyond the buying of weapons and supply boxes. All that does is reward people who have been playing longer than others.

    If there is a system to give players more elite spawns, it should be fair and balance to all players; whether it's between a player whose been playing since alpha/beta and one whose only been playing a month.

    As for the ways in increase the resources for the extra spawns; there's already points of interest in the maps that are attacked and captured or defended; why not use them to gather the "resources" needed for extra spawns? Only tough part about that is balancing the gain between attacking teams' held points and the defending teams' defended held points; as a defending team already has the points owned by them at the very start of games. Perhaps the points only give 1/3 or 1/2 at most of what the attackers get if they take them; and when a defending team reclaims the points (as in the extra time a point gives to the game if taken by attackers is already used up) after the attacking team took them once, the points give the defending team normal gain.  Kinda gives a reason to let attackers take 1/2 points and then a sudden rush in of defenders to get the capped point back right away; which I have seen happen already dozens of times.

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    Yeah that's why I abstained from suggesting that the resource generated be dependent on existing capture points. It would indeed be hard to balance the resource gain in maps where there is a defender that controls all the points in the beginning. It would also bias the game to attackers towards the end of those types of matches, making defense of the final point extremely difficult.

    However, it would provide an interesting motivation to actually bother to defend multiple points when only one time-increasing capture point remains. I have lost a lot of games lately where the defends just mindlessly sat on the final capture point and never even moved. We lose despite holding 2 points pretty much the entire game, which is entirely unfair to the attackers.

    What Nathan mentioned about "secondary objectives" really struck a note with me. I thought it would be awesome if there were neutral small objectives out in the map that can be captured and held for extra resource generation. These could be flavorful things like "comms stations" or maybe just "Rally points" that relate to increased elite spawns. It would just generally give players more things to do and more reasons to use the whole map. The action would be spread out, and probably more interesting that way.

    To extend that idea, we could have secondary objectives on defense maps that provide spawn tickets for defenders and possibly something else for attackers.

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    A little more from ps2 perhaps?

    A personal resource for manifesting certain units and a faction resource for manifesting greater versions of said units

    Eg. Veteran for personal and dreadnaught/tank for faction

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